Episode 001 – From Sales to PreSales Success with Greg Condon

In this FIRST episode of the Path to PreSales podcast, we speak with Greg Condon, Senior Sales Engineer at Checkr.

Greg delivers a masterclass on leaning into your existing strengths and how to network effectively (even if you don't know where to start), while also sharing some very helpful perspective on the right mindset and actions that can help you maximize opportunities to land your first or next PreSales career role.

Additionally, we talk about the importance of finding a role that aligns with your goals, strengths, and vision.

[00:00:00] Matt Madden: gonna let you introduce yourself But I just wanna thank you for coming on the Path to Pre-Sales podcast and, as a starting point, can you take a few minutes, help the audience get to know you, your professional background, if you wanna speak to that, as well as your most recent pre-sales role, if you'd like to speak to that.

So, floor is yours, Greg, but thanks for being on the show.

[00:00:18] Greg Condon: Yeah. Hey Matt. Thanks for having me. Yeah. I'm Greg Conan. Yeah I've been in tech for a long time now. A little over 10 years. I actually started out on the sales side of things. Fell out of that into that after college. And then started working with a couple of startup companies did direct sales for them, was in sales leadership.

And then found that I was really missing a piece to what I was doing day to day. More of the presentations, more hands on technology, working with product and multiple teams instead of just focusing on sales. So about four years ago, I made that transition into a pre-sales or sales engineer role.

I've been doing that ever since. Currently I'm a senior sales engineer at a company called Checkr.

[00:01:03] Matt Madden: Awesome man. I can relate to that background story so much. I also came from sales background, not necessarily in tech. For me, it was more of. Melting pot of different industries, but all of which have proved to be very useful for me as I think about, what I'm doing now in sales engineering.

So, love that you kinda come from that similar path. You had those transferrable skills coming in, and curious on that journey you were in sales. With tech companies before you moved into pre-sales, could you speak to the moment when you first learned about the role of pre-sales or kind of how that came about?

[00:01:42] Greg Condon: Yeah, absolutely. So the first time I learned about sales engineer, the pre-sales role, it's a very limited capacity. I was actually running a small and mid-market team for a company called Map Anything, which is now Salesforce Maps. So I had six people on my team and we utilized, sales engineer to support all of our teams, but he mainly focused on enterprise.

And I was working a small and mid-market, and then I got really hands on experience when I was with a company called Securely. We did network security and they actually have real engineers that built networks working with me to help sell our product and make sure we could stand up things correctly.

Securely really helped to that role a lot and how much of a focus it took, in the sales process and how engaged they got in the sales cycle.

[00:02:26] Matt Madden: I bet that's amazing, man. And so what was the thing that excited you most about the position when you realized, Hey, I think that could be a good fit for me. , what do I gotta do to get there? Could you speak to that part of your journey a little bit?

[00:02:44] Greg Condon: Yeah, absolutely. So I've worked, I was employee, I think 18 at Map Anything and Employee 12 at Securely. And so I was an early sales leader. I was hands on product, I was working with customers closely. I know a ton about network security now that I did not wanna started at securely. I ended up speaking at conferences and demo the product and things of that nature.

Just because I've been there so long, I knew the market so well, so I. Securely for a larger company called On four and then on four for another company called, and there was something I was about missing while I was there. And I was a senior leader on both those teams. I had the experience to help pass along and I love coaching and training, but I was missing working with product, working with the actual demos itself, being more technical.

And that happens a lot at a startup cause it's all hands on deck, kinda have to do every role. And so, Thought back to what I really wanted to do, what would make me happy day to day. And I fell on to the sales engineer solutions consultant role or, and just being in that pre-sales capacity.

I could use the soft skills that I enjoyed using every day and working with customers to help solve problems, but could also continue to challenge myself from a technical standpoint. Learning not only the products that I was, working on, but also competitive products, complimentary products, helping evaluate full tech stack.

That's really where my passion lied. I fell in love with technology cause it challenged me every day. And I've learned so many new things about different platforms and trends and things of that nature. That's what really prompted me to get into the sales engineer role. I also saw some people coming over from engineering to sales.

They're really fantastic in their roles, but they really had to develop those soft skills and didn't necessarily communicate with the sales team as well Really strategized as well as they probably could have if they had focused on the sales side first. So knowing that I thought, hey, I can use these transferable soft skills to help u up level my sales engineer skillset, and then I could focus on learning all the hard and fast facts about the platforms I was selling, and again, complimentary products and other platforms in the space.

[00:04:52] Matt Madden: That's awesome. I think a lot of people don't realize how powerful. Transferable soft skills like you mentioned, can be in helping them make that transition. Even if they're confident in their ability to learn a new skill, they don't give enough credit to maybe communication skills that they've built in a prior role or other things that actually can end up being pretty useful.

Especially like in your story where you were working at a startup and you're wearing a lot of different hats. I can relate to that for sure. So it's one of those things I hope if people are out there hearing this, that they can give themselves a little more credit and start to think about how they use those like you did strategically to, put their best foot forward as they try to make that transition into presale.

So, thanks for sharing that, Greg. And. Along those lines, if someone came to you today asking, what should they learn and focus on to successfully land their first role in tech as a pre-sales professional? What would you recommend, and it doesn't have to be from your path, but just in general, if there were three things you could focus on, one to two or three of those things?

[00:06:02] Greg Condon: Yeah, no, that's a good question, Matt. And there's so many different avenues to go with this, but I think for me it's more about harnessing personal traits that are gonna help you out. First of which, it's one that I think I have had since day one in sales, even before I was in tech sales, fresh outta college empathy.

Just being able to understand customers, what they're going through, what they need to, where they need to be, things of that extra. But also internally for me, the pre-sales role or sales engineer role sits between so many different teams and a lot of times, , we can get caught up in just servicing sales.

Cause that's the primary objective of our role. But I've worked hard throughout my career to foster relationships with product and customer success and the implementation teams and things like that. And if you can empathize with other business units, it's just gonna make your job easier. It's gonna make their jobs easier.

And then all of a sudden you're working on a cohesive team across a number of different business units instead of everybody trying to operate independently and then try to piece everything together after that. . Another thing I'd suggest is just finding something that you're passionate about. Obviously you can hear it already.

I get all fired up about the different things that I've done and the different things I plan on doing. But passion is hard to fake. And it comes through immediately. So once you're passionate about something, you can speak to it genuinely and people will feel that excitement as well. Since Covid and, even prior when we were working remote and selling virtually.

You have to get somebody inspired through a camera when they're staring at another computer screen. It's very tough to keep them engaged and paying attention and getting as excited as you are about what you're doing. So if you don't have that initial passion and excitement, then it's gonna be a really uphill battle for you from the get go. And then the, I think one of the biggest things too, and I guess I, I'll kind circle back to kinda breaking into the pre-sales role is the networking. You and I connected through the pre-sales collective. Give them a plug here, and yeah. And I think for me it's, I've just been able to learn from so many of my peers and so many, The people that have been in the industry for so long it's understanding what they've gone through, what worked for them, what didn't work for them.

You can build off those experiences and utilize them to actually make yourself a better solutions engineer and come outta the gate doing an incredible job. And I think as I meet people, they can feel and hear my passion and energy and they identify my empathy. And obviously I've had a lot of success at the previous companies I was had, and so all of a sudden that.

Can work for you too and help me plug you into different roles and, also offering up, letters of support or introductions and things like that. And I find that I've found a lot of great people at some of the roles I've been at and we still stay in touch and we still talk about things and, discuss different strategies about how to, work better with sales or how to provide better information to, professional services, things of that nature.

So I think the network can be very, Even outside of introductions and just learning and teaching and coaching.

[00:09:11] Matt Madden: Absolutely. We picked a good three to rattle off there, Greg. I gotta say, and I wanna take one of those, the last one, networking for a moment and just help people who. Maybe aren't natural networkers. I know you are, Greg, and I'm grateful that you and I connected via one of those awesome channels. The coffee meetups at Pre-Sales Collective HA was hosting back a few years back and has continued to, and I know it's brought so many great people together within the pre-sales community.

But for folks out there that maybe they're not part of Presales Collective or a similar community and. Introverted to the point of really stressed out about going to, meet up with somebody or it just doesn't come natural to them. What would you say or recommend, or is there anything in particular that could be good low-hanging fruit for them to go out and become a part of?

Or any advice you'd wanna share?

[00:10:08] Greg Condon: Yeah, good question Matt. And think again. The precepts collective is amazing. This guys did an incredible job putting together a group of professionals. It's a very niche role right now. Obviously you and I both know it's becoming more and more popular, but there's a fantastic group of people that are willing to help.

That's actually how I got my. Last or last two roles. But anyway yeah, I met some great people there that have made the right introductions and a lot of it is less interviewing, more just having conversations. That's a huge thing for me because I think when I went to work for Medallia, I think I had a conversation with the hiring manager.

Before I submitted her resume, I wanna get a feel for her. I wanna understand the company, and I loved working for her. She was fantastic. The team was awesome, but I found that out because she was just willing to have a quick conversation and review my resume and my background, see if I'd even be a good fit instead of just.

Blindly submitting a resume and hoping for the best. And that also allow me to communicate more where I was coming from, what I was looking for and kinda me up personally. So network groups are,

that's helpful, are that way. and then if the personal network is not great either, a lot of times reaching out cold on LinkedIn can be a very good way to just get in touch with the right people. I plan on doing that in the future as, and I did it. I just got my newest role, started last week, so very new.

But as I was interviewing around and looking at different companies and trying to find the right fit for me, I reached out to People Poll and said, Hey, I, I see that you're a team leader. I see that you're on this team. , I had a couple of quick questions about your day to day. What are your primary focuses?

Cause I came from the sales side of things, so I'm not as technical as an engineer and I wanted to make sure that I wasn't getting it over my head and, making sure that it was the right fit for me day to day or be interacting with customers, solving problems and things of that nature.

[00:11:57] Matt Madden: So it's a little bit tougher. You won't get as many responses for sure. Just cause people have a lot of other things going on. They dunno who you're. But you'll also find a lot of people very receptive to help. That. That's amazing advice. And you highlighted something that is. for any of us to feel when we're thinking about something intimidating is often. we make a mountain out of a mole hill. We think if I reach out to that person, they're just gonna shut me down and maybe be mean to me and make me question why did I ever think to do that?

And we know that's often not the case. Like you said, people are surprisingly very willing to help and lean in and do what they can as long as you're authentically approaching them and you're going about it the right way. And that's such an amazing. Thing to experience and realize. I definitely had that encouragement on my journey thus far in making this podcast and then certainly professionally as I've pursued other roles, so definitely can relate to that story.

Thanks for sharing that, Greg, and it tees up the next question I wanted to ask really well, which is, for being honest. Imposter syndrome is something that affects all of us from time to time. Even once you've gotten that role in tech, maybe particularly. So, if you are coming from a background that wasn't necessarily a pure computer science or data science or, techni, technically driven education background.

So could you speak to me for a moment about, things that you do to help. overcome that. And you know what advice you would give to someone out there who might be struggling with imposter syndrome right now?

[00:13:44] Greg Condon: Yeah, absolutely. I, that's a good question. And I suffered from it myself. I made the transition from sales to sales engineer, and I think I've had those moments where I thought, What am I doing? Is this the right role for me? Is this really what I should be doing? And, the crisis of Consci is maybe I should have stuck with a technical sales role, or maybe I should have stayed where I wanted to be.

But I actually, I interviewed for a role just a couple weeks back. That I was pretty excited about as a director of revenue operations role. That being said, I was wildly underqualified, . I've never had a director level role. I haven't run a lot of those teams. But I sat down and talked with a friend of mine who works at the company and would've rolled up me and he said he'd be the perfect fit, and he told me why.

We talked through skill sets, we talked to the strengths and weaknesses that they wanted. We've talked to what the role would actually entail. And I, talked about it with some of my family. My mom said, are you sure that she can handle this? Are you sure that you can do this? I said, mom, I'll never be able to fly if I don't jump.

And that was one of the things where was like I was underqualified for the role for sure. I've never held that title and would've felt uncomfortable, I think, but, , why not take the chance? Cause, because what if I succeeded? What if I did incredibly well? And looking at the day-to-day operations, what they expected from the role, looking at my experience, what I've seen with startups and the different scalability and or issues with scalability or lack thereof, depending on the company, things of that nature.

I thought I was really well qualified for the role. . Would I have been, maybe not the right titles. Sure. But it was definitely a challenge that I would've liked. So I think dealing with imposter syndrome really boils down to confidence and reminding yourself why you're doing what you're doing.

And then with that it's preparation, it's study, it is immersing yourself within the industry or vertical that you're in. I know that, I was in cybersecurity for three years. Nothing about cybersecurity. When I went in I barely knew how to reset my own router. And now I can tell you about how traffic flow in and outta network, I was able to recommend products and build out networks at schools all across the country.

So it was one of those things where I just had to take that challenge and immerse myself and then, rely on people that are more experienced and smarter to me. Just to make sure that I was up to speed on everything. It's definitely tough thing to, but there are always resources out there. I think utilize and map what makes style.

[00:16:16] Matt Madden: Such good advice, and I love that phrase you said, if I. Jump. How am I gonna learn to fly And I might, I think I grossly misquoted that. Can you give me that one more time, Greg? What was it?

[00:16:27] Greg Condon: Yes. If I don't jump how I'm ever gonna fly, so,

[00:16:30] Matt Madden: shit. I got it right. All right. Good deal.

it just, you reminds me of related phrase, build your wings on the way up, which is certainly if you've got that learner mindset like you were talking about. And you know how to go find the right resources or speak to or reach out to people that know resources that could be helpful in what you're trying to learn.

Let's say you just started in a cybersecurity role and you know nothing about it. Or, for me, in my journey, I knew a little about data science, when I started my pre-sales journey, but not nearly on the level of a practicing data scientist or the core engineers for the company that I was wanting to go work for.

And. It can be very intimidating in that moment, but your persistence in taking the shot anyways. When you did your due diligence, it sounded like you reached out to folks at the company. They felt confident in your ability to lead the team, go for a position like that. And I'm sure you learned a lot in that process, even though you didn't ultimately get the role.

Certainly sounds like you did. So I think that's really powerful for people to hear. So thanks for sharing that, Greg. And. When you think about the debrief process, when you realize that role is not for me, but here's what I learned, were there anything or any thoughts that you had about these are skill sets that you know I'm gonna go work on now and here's how I'm gonna tackle.

[00:18:02] Greg Condon: Yeah. That yeah, that's exactly what it is. A as I was interviewing and, I felt comfortable with it. I just had. For boating feelings oh no, this isn't right, like this isn't gonna be a good fit for me. There's a lot that I don't know and it's a lot that I to figure out and learn and, wanted to, a role that.

You're spot alone. I saw this as an opportunity to learn and grow. I said, Hey, this is a role that I think I could like at some point, and I could, kinda aspire to down the line. So once I get settled in my new role, feet under me, and and I'm still getting into the groove of things, I still have a lot to learn for sure.

My first thought was I'm gonna reach out to leaders in my network to say, Hey, I'd like to learn more about revenue operations, what that entails. What can I learn more about this particular role? And I'm gonna do that internally too with my company. Checkers fantastic. The people on my team are amazing and I know that they're gonna support me in whatever I'd like to do.

And so internally I'm gonna try to find our revenue operations team and learn more about enablement and learn more about coaching and how to do that on at scale, I think is really the big thing there. So it's one of those things where I know that these are skills that I can learn and go. , but I'm gonna try to help find guidance for people who've already done it before and learn, what makes sense or what I shouldn't do, or, if there's certifications, I should go out there and things like that.

So, that's where I am now. But yeah, I'm just learning from, different experiences and trying to improve myself as a professional overall.

[00:19:37] Matt Madden: That's amazing. You spoke to one of the questions I was gonna ask, which was essentially because you are newer in your role, I know that onboarding process at different companies can look very different, but. Having the right approach that you know, to be effective, which it sounds like you definitely do which is finding the right people to learn from.

Having that learner mindset is so huge in helping you not only get up to speed faster, make a very strong first impression. So, man, I'm wishing you the best of luck on that.

[00:20:09] Greg Condon: I appreciate that, man. Thank.

[00:20:12] Matt Madden: Heck yeah. In terms of when we come back to somebody who is maybe just learning about presales or, very early on, somebody recommended it. Say, Hey, I heard about this thing called sales engineering or Solutions Consulting, or, whatever title that you want to throw out there. We know there's, there are a lot of them for the rule. what would you say to them if they start, looking at qualifications, and are instantly intimidated, when they think about that and like what advice would you give to them if they didn't have a sales background or aren't working at a tech company or today in a different role looking to transition into a pre-sales focused?

if you were starting on day one in their shoes. I know you've given a lot of useful advice along those lines, but I wanna make sure we, bring it back to that too here before I wrap things.

[00:21:10] Greg Condon: yeah. No, for sure. For sure. And I think what I really suggest to most job seekers is being strategic. It's knowing what you'd like to do and. Defining that and then going after it in a multitude of ways. Casting a wide net, figuring out how to get to where you wanna be. So part of that's gonna be verticalization.

There's a particular vertical you wanna be in, such as like the Salesforce ecosystem or something like that. you'd want go after certifications. You wanna up-level your skillsets to map to the desired roles. That helps alleviate imposter syndrome to a degree, but it's making yourself a subject matter expert for that particular vertical or product.

And then also, I kinda alluded to it a bit more before I, I made the transition from sales, so. Me jumping into highly technical engineering roles, sales engineer roles is not what I wanna do. Those expectations are a little bit different. I don't always have the right background map to that.

I did interview with a pretty large tech company, got recommended by a friend of mine thought I'd be a good fit. I spoke with the recruiter and realized it was not a good fit, had different expectations from the role that I felt comfortable providing. So it's finding that role where you can really accentuate your strengths.

And then work on developing your weaknesses. And I think that's really key to not getting in over your head and understanding what you wanna do. So being strategic and finding the right fit something that job seekers don't always realize. And I think maybe we're just very beneficial to have it in tech.

anytime you interview, it is a mutual interview. You're also interviewing the company to see if it's gonna be a good fit for you. I know there's been a lot of layoffs in tech, but it's still a pretty hot job market. All those companies laid off are now hiring again. So it's one where, you know, especially as a sales engineer, it's such a niche role.

If you do have the right skillset, you are interviewing the company too, and it's gotta be a good mutual fit and. Any good company companies that you wanna work for are going to realize that and understand that they need to impress upon you exactly what they need and what they expect from you. So,

[00:23:15] Matt Madden: That's such good advice and it speaks to the importance of, as you mentioned earlier, preparing and knowing what you want and finding the best way to go after it. And I think to that point, some of the best managers that I've gone on to work for during the interview process as then as I learned more about their interview process, are really looking for those. Thought out questions in advance that you might have that really give them the sense that you are actually determining this is a good fit for you and your goals and your career. So thinking through that in advance is something I would definitely also encourage everybody to do. If you're on that path or if you're, Not quite at the stage of interviewing it's ear.

The earlier the better, just to get really clear on those goals. And there are a lot of great resources out there. Hopefully we can link to some that can just help point you in the right direction. Good food for thought as you're trying to figure out what's the best path for me. Cuz there are a lot of paths, not just the path to presales.

And it's really hard, easy to go down different rabbit holes and be like, yeah, maybe that's my path. And it might be, but you have to decide that. So, one other thing here. I know I've experienced this and I'm curious if you have in your thoughts. Different companies can have very convoluted multi-stage interviews and there's nothing more disheartening when it's something you think you really have a great shot at.

And you are in like the sixth, seventh, eighth round of a very long. Confusingly long interview process at times. So have you experienced that? Because I've had somewhere, some of the best interviews have been concise but also diligent at the same time. But then I've had others that were like very diligent and almost to the point of it's wow, you do this for everybody and then you start back at the process if they still feel you're a good fit, not for that team at the time.

So, could you speak to.

[00:25:14] Greg Condon: Yeah. Yeah, I think I've had a number of different types of interviews short versus long. The concise ones are always nice just because it is in a shorter period of time. It's one thing I think recruiters sometimes forget is they're the face of the company to other employees.

I actually had a, I was an internal referral for another company just when I was looking about a month or two ago, and, I, the recruiter actually blew by self-imposed deadlines multiple times, and I had to proactively reach out about where I was as a candidate. And that actually turned me off the third time that I had to reach out, I just said, I'd said to the guy in turn, I said, look, I'm just not interested anymore.

It doesn't matter if they come back and they really want me I'm not interested because I wasn't gonna to sit down with the hire man, hiring manager. Maybe this wasn't a priority for them. I dunno, but I wasn't being communicated too well. That could be my experience with the company the entire time.

Now, as far as interviews go I think, two or three weeks is a appropriate time for an interview cycle. But I think, I was able to checker I met hiring manager. I met, one of the colleagues I'm working with now who's amazing. One of the sales team leaders. I can get a feel for what the sales teams.

Do where they focus pros and cons. I had a lot of questions for him. I dunno if you thought it was annoying or not, but I think he appreciated it cause I had such an interest in the sales team. I did a dry run of a presentation and then I did a full on presentation with the director and everybody else interviewed with.

So that seems like a very standard process to me. Meeting with a couple different people, getting a feel for the team and to be honest too, , one of the reasons I chose checkers, I really felt the energy from the team and where their mentality was, what they put a focus on. And I really felt comfortable with everybody there.

And I think that I was able to see that, cause I had multiple interviews with multiple people in different roles. So I thought that was really nice. And I even I covid during my final presentation and they were critiquing me left and right. It was all good stuff. I just was not on my A game, but, Yeah, there are some companies out there that will do six, seven rounds and I just, I don't know if nowadays that is the best philosophy anymore but I think there is a sweet spot there and I get, I think a lot of it revolves around time that week or two, or, a couple of months.

Definitely varies.

[00:27:39] Matt Madden: Agreed. Yeah, certainly I'm of the mindset. There's a sweet spot too, and I like your take on that. Last couple questions for you, Greg. This one is an easy one, but it could be pretty deep, so I don't want to throw a curve ball at you, but if you had to pick a presale superpower of yours, what's your superpower?

[00:28:01] Greg Condon: I'd love to be a mind reader. That'd be great But I think for me, again, like I'll circle back to just what I work on is empathy. Let's, I try to put myself in everybody's shoes. My colleagues, even the, my, my bosses, my managers. I reading a sales managerial book right now, or sales engineer.

managerial book right now just to get a better understanding of, how, why should be managed and how the team can run more efficiently. But then obviously with the customers understanding why the customer's doing something. Why are we talking, what do we need to move forward? What's important to them?

I think that is like the biggest superpower to have. I try to get it right as often as I can, and but I think just taking the time to, to really understand other people is so important in our role.

[00:28:49] Matt Madden: It's so key. Yeah. If they feel. And you are genuinely listening, the conversation tends to go a lot better. So that makes a lot of sense. And I am curious, real quick, what's the name of the book that you're reading?

[00:29:04] Greg Condon: so I literally just picked it up, so I'll have to send it to you, but

it got

[00:29:09] Matt Madden: Yep. Send me the link

[00:29:10] Greg Condon: Yeah. A

friend of mine

is the director of sales engineers and he recommended it, so I trust his judgment.

[00:29:16] Matt Madden: got it. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. Now if you send me a link to that, I'll include it in the show notes for everybody. And there are a lot of amazing books. I think I heard Pre-Sales Collective is getting another book club going soon too, so that's awesome.

Great. Final question for you. Is there anything that I didn't ask you that you think would be good for people to know or, you plug before we, end the recording here?

[00:29:42] Greg Condon: Yeah, I think we covered quite a bit, Matt. For sure. Definitely talked about some really prominent characteristics and different strategies to break in. I'm on LinkedIn to if people wanna find me, always help, happy to help out. It's one of those things where I love helping other people out.

It brings me a lot of joy, so it's almost a little bit selfish in that aspect. Another great podcast that I'll bring up too, just to help broaden people's perspectives is go to market Grit. It's on Spotify's where I'll leisure usually listen to it. They put out some really good, material.

They talk to a lot of the, like C level executives. Pretty big startups and some other smaller startups, but they've had big experience at smaller companies and they bring up a lot of good viewpoints on scalability and how they've had companies grow, what they've put in. They're some really impressive individuals on that podcast, and I've always enjoyed listening to it, so I'll plug that into.

I'm not, I'm actually not a big podcast person either, but that's one that I'll listen to pretty regularly.

[00:30:44] Matt Madden: Awesome. You said go to market. Grit.

[00:30:46] Greg Condon: Go to market career. Yeah, I think it might just be called grit now, but you should be able to find it with that and I'll, I can send you the link to that as well.

[00:30:55] Matt Madden: Awesome. Yeah. We'll link that for everyone and for somebody that's not. Big podcast guy. I will say you may get invited on future podcast, Greg cuz , you're a great conversationalist and you've got a good podcast voice. So, thanks so much for coming on the show today everybody. We got Greg Conden and yeah, just looking forward to getting to share this episode with everyone.

[00:31:15] Greg Condon: Yeah. Thanks again for having me, Matt. Really appreciate it. It's always fun talking about this.

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